20060506 3rd District Debate

This was a formatted debate held at the Noni building in Provo. All three candidates were in attendance and were given time to answer a few questions. Ivan Keller was the moderator.

7:08:53 PM Introductions Ivan Keller Welcome and the questions will be given to the candidates to respond to as they would like so that you can see what they have to say. Each candidate will have 2 min. for opening statements. We will start with Mr. Cook, Mr. Cannon and Mr. Jacob. If 2 candidates want extra time on any question, then we can extend a one minute round for the question. We plan to be done in one hour.
7:10:55 PM Opening Merrill Cook “Thank you and I am pleased to be here. My wife and daughter are here as well. We appreciate your coming this evening. I have respect for both of my colleagues running for office. There is nothing personal for me coming in to this race. I agree with the incumbent on right of life, defense and some other things.
We disagree on illegal immigration. I don’t believe that we should be funding tax payer benefits. I don’t believe in amnesty. I want to be back there to vote against it.
I disagree with NAFTA and fast track trade authority for the China trade deal.
It was irresponsible of the incumbent and other republicans to pass NCLB.
I want to get us back on track.”
7:13:03 PM Opening Chris Cannon “I’d like to introduce my wife and my three daughters here. I have been meeting with 700-800 people for the past three weeks and have been able to spend time with them. I have been in congress for the past 10 years. I have been in the committee on immigration for the past 8 years.
You can come to our Monday teleconference with Mr. John Bahner and ask him any question.
None of us were born as republicans but have chosen it. I have been a delegate for longer than many others in this room. I ask for your support.”
7:14:55 PM Opening John Jacob “I am John Jacob. I won my first campaign, my wife Diane. I have wanted to run for Congress for the past 12 years. I want Chris to have lots of quality time at home with his family.
I think we need more businessmen and less politicians and lawyers. We are going to lose Congress to the Democrats if we aren’t careful. We need to change now so that in 2008 we won’t have a different president.
If you want things the same, then you can vote for the other 2. If you want change, you should vote for me. Your grandchildren and mine want change.”
7:17:35 PM Question Ivan Keller This question is regarding illegal immigration and we will start with Congressman Cannon. Is it feasible to identify the immigrants? Who will pay their benefits?
7:18:54 PM Answer Chris Cannon “Does anybody believe that we can kick out 10-12 million people at once? (claps) I believe that it would create a police state so we don’t necessarily agree on this point. The number could be 20 million. We need to have a balance.
But we must have a secure border. We just passed a bill that will have us build a fence and that is possible. I don’t think we should award people with a path to citizenship either. My job is to get something done. It is hurting all parts of our society. We can’t have false documents and other problems. I will help us to solve this problem.
There is a huge medical insurance and other benefits issue. We need to solve it.”
7:21:09 PM Answer John Jacob “I don’t remember paying money to import aliens. So I don’t think we should have to pay to send them back. We need to incent them to go back. My brother had an employee that would go back and forth 3-4 times per year. Why do we have this slave labor? We should not have the employers helping these people.
We should not allow the employers to deduct the expenses for these employees. The companies will be incented then by greed so they will stop hiring these employees. We have allowed this for many years. It has to stop or we will cease being sovereign.”
7:23:13 PM Answer Merrill Cook “If we take away the tax payer benefits and ask employers to follow the law rather than looking the other way And if we take the steps to secure our border then we will start to turn the corner on this problem. But we can not if we pass the Students Adjustment act which the incumbent voted for. And only if employers have a level playing field can we make this work. Those 2 things alone with tougher border security will help us to turn the corner. A good friend of mine who is with me on my candidacy says that it is as simple as enforcing the law.
Just doing what Mr. Jacob says about taxing the employees is not going to work because it does not encourage the rule of law. We need that respect.”
7:25:28 PM Answer Chris Cannon “This is a complicated issue and is not hard. You can hurt business which doesn’t make sense to me. But informing them is best. We have 29,000 jobs here in Utah that are unfilled. We need to help immigrants being here legally.
The act mentioned was only cursory stated, but is not what has been represented. It allows those children who have been here because of the parents.”
7:26:42 PM Answer John Jacob If we don’t take care of this problem then it will be 50 million. The whole point of having excess jobs is so that we can improve your wages. We can’t do this illegally. We can’t let this be a second class system that is allowed. If we don’t stop it we will have 50 million. We need to take the incentives away.
7:27:47 PM Answer Merrill Cook With all due respect, the Student Adjustment act is an amnesty. The person is given the instate tuition rate. We need to enforce the rule of law. I think that it is unfortunate that our incumbent voted against the amendment that was going to allow the local police the ability to enforce. We need someone there who has some teeth.
7:29:23 PM Answer Chris Cannon Obviously two guys on either side that have a different view. The dairies make more money because they have people making less money working for them. We need to have more people to do labor so that the geniuses can do work to move forward the technology of this country. We need to keep helping these people get educated.
7:30:34 PM Answer John Jacob It is obvious that we are trying to unseat you. We all agree that we have to obey our laws or there is anarchy. Can you think of anything closer to anarchy than this immigration problem? As far as low prices and jobs we are not even training our kids to get a job at the restaurant. The concept that they will do a job that we won’t I don’t agree with.
7:31:44 PM Answer Merrill Cook “Just because I did not mention that Senator Hatch was a cosponsor of the education bill doesn’t mean that he wasn’t.
Many multinational corporations like immigration. If low wages were helpful to our economy then Mexico would be prosperous.”
7:33:19 PM Answer Chris Cannon The reason America is great is because we have good people and not a sick government. Let’s not hurt that system.
7:34:39 PM Question Ivan Keller How would you reform social security?
7:34:52 PM Answer John Jacob I know that it does need to be fixed. Stop worrying about the sky falling. Stop using the extra money for pork projects. When I was 17 they were telling me that the system is broken. I don’t know all the answers, but I will find out the answers when I get back there with your help.
7:35:44 PM Answer Merrill Cook I supported private accounts when I was back there. Pres Bush told the truth when he went out and tried to move forward this issue. We need to come up with a responsible effort to move slowly with the personal accounts. We can help investment moving forward and help the next generation rather than leave them with nothing.
7:36:55 PM Answer Chris Cannon Social Security needs to be kept safe for those who can not change their lives. We need to add the ability for people to opt out and bid to opt out. We need to let people make choices. Once the system is in place that will let choice be a part of the system, then it will be more resilient.
7:38:00 PM Question Ivan Keller Do you think that Congress should have passed the fast track trade authority?
7:38:18 PM Answer Merrill Cook “I relied on the Constitution Article 1 section 1. Congress should have that authority. We should not have given that away to WTO or presidents representatives. We now have a deficit of 2.5 billion dollars per day. It has ballooned because of China and our energy dependence.
I don’t think we should be subservient to foreign nations. I think we should have a sovereign country.”
7:39:43 PM Answer Chris Cannon “I also voted against fast track when we had a Democratic president. Congress has the responsibility of setting tarriffs, but has never done it well. We have made some mistakes but what makes sense if free and open trade. We are trying to get over our hurdles. We have a set of papers that talk about the Trade Deficit and the economy. The economy is strong because of technology. I want what we have here to go out of our country. I want others to have the opportunities that we have.
I think that what we are doing is the right thing and we have the right to delegate authority.”
7:41:44 PM Answer John Jacob “It’s a good thing they asked that question from those two before me so that I could understand the question. I thought fast track was something other than NAFTA and CAFTA. WTO was given too much power. The only ones who can change the laws in the United States are the president and Congress.
When the WTO opened up China they had to take our goods when they didn’t have to before. They are a growing nation and because they are making money they are going to start buying things. Some of those things are our goods. After NAFTA was passed we went to 14% increase so there is an advantage to being a partner in it. When things are going well you get a deficit when you get a depression we decrease our deficit.”
7:44:05 PM Answer Merrill Cook “One of the problems and the reasons that I entered this race is because the incumbent voted against the power because the president was a democrat, but now that it’s a republican, then he says power is okay.
I disagree with the money in education that they have added as leverage.”
7:45:12 PM Answer Chris Cannon The principal is whether you can delegate to a president that you trust. We still have a trust now. I am confused by what Mr. Jacob said about the WTO making us change laws? The WTO needs to be understood if we are going to make statements on this.
7:46:04 PM Answer John Jacob It’s obvious that you haven’t heard Merrill on this issue. I don’t think WTO should control this. You have been a Congressman for 10 years I do not have the experience. I go there untainted. I think every congressman we have loses touch with the people.
7:47:50 PM Answer Merrill Cook Whether we are talking NAFTA or CAFTA or fast track they are all deals that take the rights of trade to someone else. That is the bottom line. It is possible for us to do it but its not right. We have mushroomed our national trade deficit. It is affecting our industry. We need to do what is best for our country.
7:49:08 PM Answer Chris Cannon “I agree with Mr. Cook that we have a larger deficit. But we have a dominant economy and our ideas are being promoted outside of our country.
You have the power as delegates. You get to vote yes or no for me. When I get back to Washington, I understand what I am doing and am able to move the issues the way that you would like them to go.”
7:50:22 PM Answer John Jacob Right now you can buy material from China or America. This is your choice. Do you want me to be your conscience? Do you want me to make more rules or less rules? I don’t want to tell you what you want to buy. I think it’s wrong for me to tell you what to do.
7:51:19 PM Question Ivan Keller Is the current patent law adequate or is there a need for reform.
7:51:37 PM Answer Chris Cannon “We need a patent law reform. This phone that I have has about 2000 patents inside it. The pharmaceutical companies have only 1 or 2. Blackberry has to pay 850 million dollars to get away from injunction fear.
We need new laws so that an individual can get the value and not extort companies.”
7:52:37 PM Answer John Jacob We agree on this issue. Something else is that Giant Ladders had a patent. He did an infomercial and has since done a great business. Blackberry did take something that didn’t belong to them. The courts decided that they did take from them. So they should have to pay.
7:53:40 PM Answer Merrill Cook “The Congress needs to adjust. It needs to balance the fomenting of the intellectual and creative powers in this country. But they need to balance this so that they users can get what they want.
In the same way that they control patents, they need to control trade. I want us to have fairer trade. In this way we won’t have to compete with slave labor camps. This hurts our monetary system.”
7:55:00 PM Answer Chris Cannon We have agreement but I want more time so that we can address this. Blackberry didn’t know that it had infringed. This device was functional without this.
7:55:37 PM Answer John Jacob Blackberry might not have known the rules. Do we have to fight in court to get to resolve it? The patent laws may be kept too long. In this way the drugs get too much control.
7:56:28 PM Answer Merrill Cook I’ll use my 30 seconds to say that I agree with our incumbent. I recognize that he is honorable. Just because I agree here, I disagree with him on illegal immigration. It’s not right. I have to stand up and say the education act and and gambling acts should not be passed.
7:58:08 PM Answer Chris Cannon Can I take extra time to address David Sabavian. I hired him to help us work on telecommunications. He helped us get VOIP. And now you say that he somehow told me how to vote? No. We have been stopping gambling here in Utah, but we can’t solve this problem alone. I won’t let the federal government allow gambling in Utah.
7:59:19 PM Answer John Jacob I’ve always told people there are 2 sides to a pancake. I have seen many meetings where things got out of control and were reported in papers. I am glad that Chris is keeping gambling out of Utah.
8:00:23 PM Answer Merrill Cook The ban on gambling is what all the conservatives are together on except our incumbent. When you hire a registered gambling lobbyist, then the question is asked about a conflict of interests.
8:01:28 PM Question Ivan Keller What can Congress do to reduce Health Care and should Mitt Romney’s plan be a model?
8:01:46 PM Answer John Jacob “It’s interesting to look at this. I talked to someone who is in the industry. He talked to someone that had a Savings account. It allows the doctor to take money from insurance and savings account. The doctor misunderstood and did things much less expensively. We need to do things that will help the doctors reduce there cost.
I have a chiropractor that does not have a secretary and he charges me 20.00 per visit. I have a friend who is charged the maximum because that is what the insurance will pay, not because it is worth is.”
8:03:34 PM Answer Merrill Cook “The question was about Mitt Romney’s plan in MA. I think it lends too heavy a hand of government to say that all employers give employees insurance. He is addressing an important problem.
I think if our federal government made it mandatory to have insurance, then we would have a problem. Hillary Clinton might propose it though.
I would like us now to allow small employers to band together to get better rates. I think an expansion of Medical Savings accounts. This would hep the competition and will help us to reduce the costs. We need to move slowly but surely. We don’t need a national health care system. We don’t need to add a new problem on the businesses that are already struggling with energy costs.”
8:05:50 PM Answer Chris Cannon “Mitt’s comments on CSPAN were a little bit scary. I don’t know has MA will work but it might work for them. Businesses will not be able to change their plans. I agree with my colleagues.
We passed a bill for employers to group together and hope that it passes the Senate. The Health Savings Accounts are a good thing and will help us avoid socialism. We can stifle innovation just at the time when they will innovate now. We would suggest that they be able to be flexible.
This year is the year of personalized medicine. We need free market now for medical issues.”
8:08:10 PM Question Ivan Keller Thank you candidates. (minor discussion to extend one more question. The audience voted yes) One more question. This is regarding states rights and the federal role in education.
8:08:56 PM Answer Merrill Cook “The Tenth amendment says that all powers not granted to the Federal should be at the State. The power should be at the State. The way I got this idea was when I volunteered for President Reagan’s campaign. The fact that our education budget has gone up by 48% is an enormous intrusion to the local communities.
I would go back and not tweak the bill, but repeal it. If not then send the auditing power back to the States. The systems that are tracking the issues nationally are really upsetting the local issue. You have to listen to the local community. That is the only way to return values based education to our society.”
8:11:09 PM Answer Chris Cannon “I agree entirely with what he said. The Founding Fathers knew that the Congress would try and accumulate power. We have accumulated 2.8 trillion dollars as our consolidation of power. The 17th Amendment allows senators to be elected at large and might need to be changed.
NCLB was not what it should be. Secretary Spellings behavior was appalling and I had the NEA members in my office last week. We can get rid of the DOE by going to endfeded.com. We can do this and then get rid of the Dept of Trans.”
8:13:15 PM Answer John Jacob “Both of these guys are probably right but they don’t look like Ronald Reagan and he couldn’t get rid of it. We have to weaken these things so that the state can make the choices. NCLB is not being funded like it should, it is costing too much.
It is not just on education where federal government has a problem. We need to make less government not greater government. We need to weaken the government. We may not be able to stop NCLB but we need to change it at the least.”
8:15:26 PM Closing John Jacob “I am grateful for the opportunity to live in Utah and America. I know why others want to come here. I am tired of the Democrats “Chicken Little” attitude. I don’t want to tear down both of these other men. I want to serve you. I would be making 1/10 of my current income.
I want to set up a place for you to give me feedback. When we get information only once every 2 years to our Congressmen, then they are out of touch. We needed to set up the Throckmorton group 2 days, not 2 years after we win the election. The 4 ideas: illegal immigration, education, energy and 2nd amendment are your issues. I would not go back if I did not work on those things.
We need change and my contract will help that.”
8:18:15 PM Closing Chris Cannon “Thank you for coming. Most of you have had my cell phone for the last 3 years. This is a job where you never stop campaigning. I ask for your support. Monday night, all you have to do is pick up your phone and can even have the crying baby in the background.
The world is different and you are different. There are 3 Bloggers here in this room. (merrill included). This empowers you in no other way. The fact is that you can now do this. We have allowed you to do this.
Reagan didn’t get rid of the Department of Education because he was advised that it should stay by a Utahn. We now have the proof that they were wrong. I ask for your support at convention and after the convention.”
8:20:55 PM Closing Merrill Cook “The important things that need to be done is to have consistency between what is campaigned and what is voted. I don’t think it is good enough to vote for the education bill and then build a website that says you are against the department of education.
I don’t think it is right to say you are against illegal immigration and then pass the education bill. I don’t think it is right to grant amnesty to those who are illegally here.
I don’t have a problem with each employers bringing in illegals. I do have a problem with the incumbents bill that requires us to pay their health care costs.
I think that we need to return America to its foundations and roots. I think we should have lobbyists terminate there employment for one year before being in a congressional office. That’s what we need!”
8:23:30 PM

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