20110622 Redistricting Hearing (UT County)

This meeting was held in Provo to discuss Redistricting. The large committee attended and listened to everyone that had something to say. It was well done.

9/26/2011 12:44:44 PM Welcome Ken Sumsion “Thanks for coming. This is the second and last meeting here in Utah County.
I am Ken Sumsion and represent the largest population house seat at 90,505 people. We need to equalize it.”
6/22/2011 6:03:16 PM Introductions Ralph Okerlund I represent Senate 24.
6/22/2011 6:03:39 PM Introductions Todd Kiser HD 41 in SE and SW Salt Lake County
6/22/2011 6:04:00 PM Introductions Gage HD 8 Weber County
6/22/2011 6:04:12 PM Introductions Kirk Glad HD 5 …more
6/22/2011 6:06:57 PM Welcome Ken Sumsion Begin with presentation by McClellan working on MPP at BYU.
6/22/2011 6:09:08 PM Presentation Chris McClellan “Redistricting occurs every 10 years. This happens due to the Constitution. The principle is representation. You need to improve the representation. Our different counties grew at different rates with Washington county growing over 50%.
10 largest SD start at 150,707 and the smallest is 74,900.
HDs largest is 90,503 and smallest is 24,238.
US Congressional seat should be about 690,071 people.
This redistricting is based on 2010 census data.
Districts should be contiguous.
Compact so that it is simple.
Nov 2012 election is when these will apply.
Http://redistrictingutah.com/
You can propose maps through this tool. Go to “”Your Map””
Currently 435 users with 45 plans submitted. It has been online for about 2 weeks now.”
6/22/2011 6:19:39 PM Presentation Ralph Okerlund “Senate 1% plan. 2 senate seats in Washington, Iron, Beaver county now due to growth.
One large district in SW SD#27. Tooele split 4 ways now but only 2 on this proposal.
Salt Lake County has not grown and so it will lose seats.”
6/22/2011 6:27:02 PM Presentation Ken Sumsion “Congressional maps. Plan H by Sumsion with a doughnut hole of N SL County. Most of the maps on the site are Congressional.
On Utah County I have drawn over a dozen maps breaking it out. UT is 570k and divides to perfectly 14 House seats.
Saratoga is too big with Eagle Mountain so you split in to 41.
I built a district with Dougall and I in the same place in AF. 61 through Vineyard. More seats on the south end of the county as well.
This map would make 5 versus 4 house seats. This has all sorts of effects on surrounding regions.”
6/22/2011 6:45:17 PM Curt Bramble Thanks for your work. I understand the challenges. One observation is that if we split the county you will be represented by someone from Sanpete and other rural counties.
6/22/2011 6:45:27 PM Speaker Wayne Anderson “Mayor of Spanish Fork with other mayors. I am concerned about Senate map.
RESOLUTION: SF is divided in to 3 SDs and feels it has no representation.
Want just one SD for Spanish Fork.
RESOLUTION: South Utah County in multiple districts. Springville and Santaquin wants its own Senate district.
Utah county gets divided all over the state and may not have our interests at heart. We will be making a lot of changes in the next 10 years.”
6/22/2011 6:50:53 PM Speaker Wilford Clyde Mayor of Springville passed a resolution last night as well.
6/22/2011 6:51:22 PM Speaker Craig Coleman “District 3 on State Board of Education. There are 15 seats on the Board so the districts are bigger than Senate Districts. The tool doesn’t take in to account school districts. My District includes a lot of school districts. Tooele county is not easy to get to for me.
Please look for natural boundaries and ways to get representation.”
6/22/2011 6:53:33 PM Question Becky Lockhart You are required to have a School Board but do you want more members or less members because we can accommodate that?
6/22/2011 6:54:03 PM Answer Craig Coleman I don’t know that increasing the numbers will help us do our job better. There are still the same number of meetings and workload. We are okay with constituents but it wont help us do our job better.
6/22/2011 6:54:53 PM Question Becky Lockhart Would a smaller board be better?
6/22/2011 6:55:04 PM Answer Craig Coleman I don’t know. Off the top of my head having a smaller board would not help us get to a quorum as easily. I did draw a map. In redrawing these districts.
6/22/2011 6:57:05 PM Question Craig Coleman How will you deal with the representatives who share a new district?
6/22/2011 6:57:30 PM Answer Ken Sumsion I don’t own my seat so we will have an election and the rotation will be realigned. This will be presented as a bill that will indicate who needs to run.
6/22/2011 7:02:50 PM Question Wade Jacobi “You have an impossible job ahead of you. This is difficult to sort out. There will always be suspicion. The boundaries are hard. You guys just need to do this. You do have an interest and God bless you for that.
We have a concern when you are choosing your voters. This process is only with elected officials. We should involve more citizens on the decision board.
We need a referee in the game and an independent commission.”
6/22/2011 7:01:35 PM Answer Becky Lockhart “The Constitution states that it is the legislature that creates these lines and we are accountable to the people versus an independent commission. They will owe someone. We stand for an election.
Maybe it is possible outside of the state to have an independent commission, but they are always appointed by someone, so they are never really independent.”
6/22/2011 7:03:11 PM Question Peggy Burdett “I would like to suggest that if you follow permanent boundary lines, like city and school boundaries is good. When someone annexes property they will know where to put the new person. We need a boundary to be clear.
School boundaries are one of the things you should look at. It would be good if a Representative matched with school boundary because the money would match.
Utah County was divided in to 13 House seats. 8 of them are in multiple Senate seats. 5 of them are in 3 or more Senate seats who are not in Utah County.
We lost in 2001.
Orem is the 5th largest city in the state of Utah. In 2001 they didn’t treat the 10 largest cities the same. Senator Valentine represents lots up north and Orem. Dayton splits in to Provo and that is two different districts.
Provo is the number 2 in size.
West Jordan doesn’t even have a Senator. You should look at the largest cities and pair them with smallest.”
6/22/2011 7:09:50 PM Question Thayne Bailey “I believe there is fairness. I am glad that Rep Sumsion is ready to run against another incumbent. I appreciate that integrity.
I do not like seeing Utah County chopped up in the Senate. I think concentrating in Utah County would be best.”
6/22/2011 7:11:26 PM Answer Ken Sumsion Every map will have an overlapping representative. How you draw the lines will guarantee an impact due to growth. Orem / Provo area should have a seat combined. This has happened in the Northern Utah maps as well.
6/22/2011 7:14:06 PM Question Beau Sorenson “Thanks for all the work. I have submitted Senate, House and congressional. I got to EM and had only 18,000.
Please consider the existing political boundaries of counties, cities and school districts. Keep the boundaries as similar as possible.
I was able to keep all of the cities in the county except one.”
6/22/2011 7:16:15 PM Question Blair Bateman “I appreciate the input ability here and online. I question whether what we say will make a difference. The map by Waddoups looks like it just preserves seats. With all due respect if we had true representation.
I don’t see how anyone can say with a straight face that they can be voted out.”
6/22/2011 7:17:40 PM Answer Francis Gibson “It takes a lot to put out the first plan. President Waddoups has taken a beating.
We are, one of the few states, that is even allowing public input. We had a committee member present a plan in Tooele and that plan was picked on a lot. I have gone across the state spending hours of work.
District 27 is not good for Mapleton. I hear a lot about leadership but I am going to keep working. Across the state we are representing what our people want. Each of us has to go back and report. Some say that they won’t get representative. In the end if the candidate isn’t good they will lose.”
6/22/2011 7:20:05 PM Question Will Matheson “Chair of Utah County Democratic Party. Thanks for hearing from us. I would like to emphasize the Mayors comments to not split the County.
Redistricting is about our representation. Every map will be taken apart. This means everything to us. You as elected officials think about re-election and that is as natural as breathing.
Because you are thinking about that drawing the lines for your convenience is not good. When the party lines are drawn so that a Democratic Senator wins with 79% and the Republican wins next door with 79% then that is not right.
When it comes to running for office and campaigning what do you have as an incentive to keep you honest. Our democracy is going sour across the country due to this.”
6/22/2011 7:23:09 PM Question Ken Sumsion Question for you. What would you recommend as far as Congressional maps and seats?
6/22/2011 7:23:36 PM Answer Will Matheson “I believe in the guidance without party affiliation. I think it would be good to have a map so that there is a competitive Congressional district so that we have a good representation. I would like to see us have 2. The doughnut holes and pizza slices do not match the map.
I also like compact because mix of rural and urban doesn’t work.”
6/22/2011 7:25:05 PM Question Chris Beckstrom “Lowly janitor and student. I appreciate your efforts involving us. That says a lot about your intentions. I have concerns about the system.
In Utah County I think that we should have fair representation across demographic minorities. The one power rule is not good for the voters.
If our position is not represented we have no chance of being represented. A lot of the interests that get listened to are from the delegates and ideologically extreme people.
To have competitive politics is in the interests of all voters.”
6/22/2011 7:27:40 PM Question Linda Clark “I am speaking for myself and am aligned with the League of Women Voters.
We strongly support voter registration and participation and education. Voter participation has declined. I have heard that “”my vote doesn’t count so I don’t bother.”” Or “”you just show up and vote the party box.””
There are deleterious effects when only parties are favored. Examples are the overturn of HB477.
We would also like more statesmanship. We know that you are trying really hard to leave the party stuff behind but it is part of your DNA. We want strict gerrymandering standards. That includes focusing on local political boundaries.
Keep them compact and without influence from voter strength.
There are examples of 2001 abuse. Moab is split down Main Street and we can do better than that.
Let principles rule and leave partisanship behind.”
6/22/2011 7:32:46 PM Question “I have discussed this all over the state. I like to get involved in this stuff.
My brother and I worked on a plan for the State House. We discussed with Iron county etc. His plan Brian Voeks 75 house district. It is an awesome plan and keeps in mind future growth and keeps Salt Lake and Utah County.
SD 23 on the plan is not good at all.
Creating an independent commission is not possible”
6/22/2011 7:36:41 PM Question Dave Acheson “Utah County Republican chair. We represent 148,000 increased population which is larger than the other counties in sheer numbers, not percents. What this represents is that our county represents over 20% of the population.
What we ask for is full representation in our bodies. From a higher level is to have 5 Senate seats fully seated in Utah County. We are willing for a sixth to go north or south.
House seats is 14. It can be confusing. We don’t want too many Senators.
It is fair and right and is what is our due. We want to continue to support the state.”
6/22/2011 7:39:59 PM Question Paul Fisher “Thank you for taking our comments. #6 says that we should be compact. SD#23 doesn’t look right. There was not a good faith estimate and it could be done a lot better.
I have noticed that neighborhoods are being moved in or out to get a representative to stay. Maybe the legislator should only have to live within 5 miles or in a city etc.
Splitting Moab in half seems like a bit much. We should be able to keep a city together.”
6/22/2011 7:42:27 PM Question Frederico Roderigueq BYU College Democrats leader. I have lived in Draper since June 2003. There are Democrats in this county and our voice is not heard. I appreciate the work you do. What assurance do I have that you will listen to our interests?
6/22/2011 7:43:45 PM Answer Ken Sumsion We are taking in the input. We are 85% Republican in my district. In Utah County you should draw some seats that you think will address the concerns. We will look at them.
6/22/2011 7:44:48 PM Question Brian Wall “Mayor. We passed a resolution and what we are looking for is like areas having like representation. Mapleton has been segregated. We are involved in MAG and other groups and our interests are different.
Funding, land use, mining rights, water, energy. We need champions to represent us.
Senator Waddoups you were the first one out. Please hear the plea and make south Utah County have one Senator who will work with us.
Hinkins out of Price doesn’t know us.”
6/22/2011 7:47:56 PM Question Lynn Sorenson “I am Democratic Party Chair of Leg 62. I want to call your attention to editorial in Deseret News. In an ideal world redistricting proposals would come from independent commissions. They hope that the committee will demonstrate its sincerity to identify community of interests and keep them together.
They also stated that Republicans have a veto proof majority in the legislature. You can do the right thing without running out more Democratic seats. They suggest you respect city and county boundaries. They borrowed a quote from representme.org “”People choosing leaders not leaders choosing people.”””
6/22/2011 7:51:13 PM Question Caleb Christian The north side of Salt Lake in the Congressional Plan. What is the purpose of having one urban district?
6/22/2011 7:52:09 PM Answer Ken Sumsion This was presenting what some Salt Lake City people asked for so it was based on their requested input.
6/22/2011 7:52:36 PM Question Caleb Christian I am definitely not involved in one party. Republicans are definitely split and not unified. I am a delegate represeting my precinct. Thanks to everyone in the audience too.
6/22/2011 7:53:35 PM Question “You have a hard job. You will never get anyone who is 100% happy. I think SD#23 and SD#13 is ridiculous. That being said it is a thankless job so let’s talk about the 800 lb gorilla. If you are running in that area and county then you only have to win over 75 delegates.
I don’t know how you get around people that just vote for Republican.”
6/22/2011 7:57:01 PM Question Karen When I saw the map and I am from Springville and that Mapleton goes all the way down to San Juan. And Spanish Fork and Springville all split it was very disappointing to me. I like to converse with people throughout the city. We like to discuss what need sto be done. It does not help to split us up in to other groups. South Utah County should be counted. It should not be part of Juab, Sanpete.
6/22/2011 7:58:46 PM Question Adrielle Herring “Thank you for all the effort you have gone to. I hope people don’t hate you when you are done. The County Republican party has been working on things.
Please respect city and county boundaries. Trying to create districts with these principles is hard and I understand that.
A concern that has been expressed to me by delegates in the county is that Salt Lake County needs to lose and Utah County needs to add. We do not want to spread out Utah County.
I also want to echo no safe seats. I would be happy if every seat were competitive.
Why was there no Utah County represented on the Senate committee?”
6/22/2011 8:01:20 PM Question Brian Chapman “I understand how difficult it is to draw these lines. In the plan that the President came up with I am concerned about SD#27. It is difficult for Senator Hinkins. It takes a lot.
You might get an intern during the session but can you imagine getting even more geographic area. I don’t think that you have to make only one Senator for Utah County South. I don’t think Bluff, Cane or Blanding can represent me well in Spanish Fork.
There are ways that we can tweak this to make representation occur better.”
6/22/2011 8:04:09 PM Question Paul Thompson “Utah Citizens Council. I want to talk about congressional districts. We will submit our proposals to your website. We have 4 maps. We are focused on communities of interest. We don’t like the pizza slice.
The maps we presented will have major counties get combined. Utah County plus southern Salt Lake County.
I encourage you to focus on communities of interest.”
6/22/2011 8:05:56 PM Question Natalie Brooks I worked for some Democratic candidates who were very high quality. I am concerned about maintaining a competitive atmosphere. If it is already determined by the primaries who is going to win then it is too easy for the representative to not represent their district.
6/22/2011 8:07:12 PM Question Jacki Wilson I am new at this. I went to my precinct meeting and the people elected me. We are talking about serving the people. We gave you power to represent us. Please remember that we don’t want to do this for candidates but for the people. No matter which party we are. Thank you for your work.
6/22/2011 8:08:31 PM Comment Ralph Okerlund “Thank you. This committee is taking a lot of time. This is important to us (over 100 people). We are really early in the process. Every time I go to one of these meetings I see changes.
This is our 8th meeting and in every one of those places we hear keep us together. I am really interested in seeing some more maps. I am looking for ideas that will help this process.
It’s really easy to say keep me whole, but you need to have an idea for the entire state, then those are the kinds of things that we are looking for.”
6/22/2011 8:10:22 PM Close Ken Sumsion This is one of the largest turnout meetings we have had. Thank you.
6/22/2011 8:10:53 PM Adjourn