20120128 UT County Central Committee

This meeting was held at Dixon Middle School in Provo. It was an alright meeting. We spent 36 minutes to adopt the agenda; from 9:17 until 9:53 AM. Once we were done with that we were able to proceed to a debate on the key issue of the December 10th meeting and then able to vote.

1/28/2012 9:09:35 AM Pledge
1/28/2012 9:11:41 AM Introductions Dave Acheson We have seen some civil email exchanges. Please continue being civil.
1/28/2012 9:11:53 AM Business Dave Acheson Kirby Glad is going to be secretary pro tem for this meeting. Unanimous by voice.
1/28/2012 9:12:17 AM Business Dave Acheson “You have a proposed agenda in your hands. There is a difficult item on it for this meeting. Many of us in this room have strong feelings on either side of this issue. In the past we have a tradition, that I don’t think is great. We have maneuvering about the agenda. What I have tried to do on this agenda is spend a lot of time and listen to both sides.
I had a meeting with Stan Lockhart on this side and Dave Duncan on this side. We had lots of time and talked about todays agenda. I wanted to assure that on todays agenda we could get to the content of what we want to discuss. That is the tough issue on todays agenda and the purpose of my office is to create this agenda. I take full responsibility for it. I want the issue to actually be addressed and then we can move beyond wasting time over arguing about the agenda.
In no way am I trying to quash parliamentary rights. You have the right to hinder, but this is editorializing personally. You can engender discussion about the agenda itself. I have worked openly to assure that the important issue is here.
When I ran for this office I said that we should have the discussions and should come with our game on. Don’t waste my time. So I want to hear honed arguments for your position and don’t repeat things I have already heard. I don’t want us to just flex our parliamentary muscles.
If you look at the agenda I have put in time limits. We never have enough time but we can’t have 10 hours to speak to this issue. I don’t think you have the time. We have to be smart and think these things through and listen and focus on either side.
Don’t waste my time with repeating arguments that have already been heard.
We can take a half hour or forty five minutes to argue if you want. We need a two thirds vote to approve this agenda.”
1/28/2012 9:17:11 AM Motion Gary Anderson Approve agenda as it is.
1/28/2012 9:17:26 AM Amend Dennis Peterson Eliminate the point of order by the executive committee. With all due respect.
1/28/2012 9:18:51 AM Information Dave Duncan My understanding is that Jeremy resigned and so we should be able to eliminate that from the agenda.
1/28/2012 9:19:12 AM Information Dave Acheson I don’t know that he could resign since he appealed. There is a pending issue on that which I am waiting on a ruling for as well. So as information I would like to keep that on the agenda.
1/28/2012 9:19:58 AM Information Dave Duncan Then we should limit debate to 5 minutes each side with one minute per person.
1/28/2012 9:21:46 AM Information Dave Acheson We move directly to a vote on this and it takes a 2/3 vote to limit debate to 5 minute on each side one minute each speaker.
1/28/2012 9:22:42 AM Vote Dave Acheson Stand is clear 2/3..
1/28/2012 9:24:18 AM Information Dave Acheson If the item is removed from the agenda then we would not discuss it at this meeting. If you have any discussion now is the time.
1/28/2012 9:24:54 AM Favor Dennis Peterson I think the Central Committee spoke and the executive committee isn’t allowed to question that. The executive committee is wasting our time. The Central Committee has spoken.
1/28/2012 9:25:30 AM Against First I wonder if taking this off the agenda will it be able to come up in next meeting.
1/28/2012 9:25:49 AM Information Taking this off the agenda can put it back on the agenda later.
1/28/2012 9:25:30 AM Against That’s my point. Thank you.
1/28/2012 9:25:59 AM Favor Arthur Brady I heard that our good chairman had a good and well run meeting. We want to have that as a model. In the meeting that he would have us look to is the meeting that we are going to have be set aside. So I rise to speak in favor of removing this item. If the next newly constituted executive committee wants it then they may bring it up.
1/28/2012 9:27:01 AM Against Mike Terry I think one of the most frustrating things that we have experienced has been the argument over the agenda and people trying to keep people from having things being heard. There is a proper notice question and if it is true then the meeting was improperly held. I don’t think we should be afraid to discuss. Lets not take it off the agenda.
1/28/2012 9:28:04 AM Favor I think we should take this off. We have discussed this as an item for years. I think it is pretty obvious that we don’t want it on the agenda. We have all received information and emails about why it is a valid meeting. I know that a lot of people who set aside their issues to be at that meeting. The vote was taeken. Take this off the agenda.
1/28/2012 9:29:03 AM Against Mike Whitefield I believe that I will uphold the December 10 meeting decision. I just wanted to see who has to say what is valid or not and I want to hear the arguments.
1/28/2012 9:29:44 AM Favor Keri Witte “Two points. I was part of noticing group of people. We fixed bounced emails. We had the second highest attendance. We have a point of order on this agenda item. We can’t just invalidate that meeting.
The motion is to invalidate a meeting. We would need to rescind and we did not give notice for that. The notice to rescind the meeting has not taken place so we can’t do it.”
1/28/2012 9:30:55 AM Against Stan Lockhart “I don’t want to hear this any more than you do. I would not assume we have to do this. I heard a long time member say that the meeting was held improperly. The executive committee noticed that they didn’t use the right information. So the members of the executive committee voted to put it on the agenda.
I resent the class warfare in the email. If you don’t want to hear it today it is fine. But do we follow the rules or not?”
1/28/2012 9:32:05 AM Favor My wife is here today as my vice chair. One of the complaints is the naked power grabs. Last meeting was one of the most important meetings. I have had people come to me and complain about this. They are tired of this kind of power grab. It was well attended and let us keep it.
1/28/2012 9:33:08 AM Information Jacki Wilson I would like to know what it was that we voted on. I am a state delegate and on the executive committee. We have been accused of things as an executive committee.
1/28/2012 9:34:04 AM Information Dave Acheson The meeting was not made properly.
1/28/2012 9:34:22 AM Against Jacki Wilson David you lied..
1/28/2012 9:34:52 AM Jacki Wilson We brought this to you so you could decide.
1/28/2012 9:35:05 AM Information Dave Duncan Are all of the members of the executive committee automatic delegates?
1/28/2012 9:36:11 AM Information Dave Acheson “The broader issue about ex oficio has been brought up through the proper channels many times through the years and will in the years to come. We are vigilant about other items that come up again and again. I am always telling my city council that they should balance the budget.
Every year you have to go to your council and be vigilant. ‘I want you to balance the budget.’ This is one of those issues that can come up again and again.”
1/28/2012 9:37:21 AM Privilege Jim Tracy (Sheriff of Utah County) I am resigning both of my delgates as a county delegate and state delgate. I will not be used a pawn.
1/28/2012 9:37:51 AM Information Dave Acheson “If you are in favor of removing this item from the agenda. If you don’t want to have this discussion later on.
If you are standing then you need to find a seat now.
If you have a wristband you get to vote.
Those in favor to remove from agenda please stand.
282 is our credential report.”
1/28/2012 9:40:39 AM Vote Yes plus No are more votes that the number I mentioned to you. So that is a problem.
1/28/2012 9:47:47 AM Information Scott Bell Report is pretty quick. We have $20,000 in the bank including Lincoln Day Dinner which is around $12,000. We are doing good fundraising. You need to sell seats and come yourself as well. We will only have $7,200 after the Dinner. After the Caucus we will only have about $1200.00. We are not doing well. We need to sell more tickets. We don’t want to have to pay for more parliamentary meetings.
1/28/2012 9:52:17 AM Information Dave Acheson “342 credentials. We had 318 votes.
Those is favor of amending the agenda is 142. The noes were 172.”
1/28/2012 9:53:15 AM Motion Dave Acheson “Adopt agenda. Question has been called.
Debate is closed.
Since we have time limitations it is 2/3.”
1/28/2012 9:54:31 AM Vote Dave Acheson The agenda is adopted by 2/3 vote clearly by standing. No one stood Against.
1/28/2012 9:55:04 AM Motion Kirk Meyers “To accept the financial report.
I am the precint chair.
We are discrediting the caucus system and we should take the 10% delegates and auction them off at the Lincoln Day dinner.”
1/28/2012 9:56:48 AM Vote “Approve the budget for the Lincoln Day Dinner.
1 Nay vocal all others Ayes.”
1/28/2012 9:57:19 AM Information Scott Bell Someone volunteered to match what is donated today even if you have a dollar or two. Blue Castle Holdings.
1/28/2012 9:58:47 AM Information Dave Acheson Today is the day that we will talk about what we are supposed to talk about. Preparation for the March 15 caucus.
1/28/2012 9:59:14 AM Information Jacki Wilson “David Duncan, I want to apologize publicly for calling you a liar.
This is a fable for our time.
Early one morning John Q Citizen’s elephant was at the bottom of an empty well. His cousin and another farmer showed up and said that the elephant was in the well. They felt bad and the elephant thrashed in the well while the 3 farmers talked about getting him out.
John Q Citizen assumed that a rescue was impossible and that he would have to just leave the Republican in the well and bury it. Soon they began to dump dirt on the elephant. As the shovels of dirt were going in to the well the elephant would shake off the dirt and step on it. They could see that he could ascend as people poured more dirt in. More people volunteered to help and it wasn’t long until the elephant was out of the well. We have challenges that we need to overcome. It would seem the adversary wants to bury us. We have a country to save. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We are weary and worn out from warring with one another.
Let’s stop it.
Let’s shake it off and step up. We can and must debate our issues respectfully. We must advocate, vote and go forward in Unity. United we stand, divided we fall.
We must reach out to every citizen. We can and must.
Here is an example of what I am talking about. This is a sample of we will be handing out as we go in too our elections.
Every Leg chair will have a list of their jobs. Here is the vice chair jobs. These are the jobs that they will have.
This is what the electors must do.
Your vote counts. The thing that I want you to do is vote for the best qualified. Here are some questions you might ask:
Do you support the party? What is your day job? Do you support a particular candidate? Are you fully aware of your duties? Will you fulfill them during the next 2 years? Under what cicrumstance should peole be removed from office? How should we spend our money? How should we choose our delegates?
Elect very carefully.
I ask of you that you go to the website and look at your job and see what you are supposed to be doing. Examine your servant heart. Ponder on how you can serve. Solicit Gods help for “in God we trust.” Then let us shake it off and step up.
It is for us the living to be highly resolved that our forefathers shall not have died in vain. (Lincoln Gettysburg Address)
I support what I am saying to you.
Who will step up with me?”
1/28/2012 10:08:05 AM Information Don Garlett Call for the orders of the day.
1/28/2012 10:09:00 AM Information Dave Duncan Jeremy Roberts piece is abbreviated. He sent an letter of resignation. That time is shortened a bit. I would ask 10 more minutes for a member of the state party to present their information. (Moved, voted and sustained)
1/28/2012 10:09:37 AM Motion “I am a volunteer with the state party. They are working very hard to get the precinct chairs and hosts the materials they need.
Before Thursday March 15 you will get a packet with all the rules. One reason we are doing live training is because the rules have been interpreted very differently.
We are calling everyone who leads the meeting precinct Hosts. You will need to prepare ahead of time. You might need a table, ballots, chair, flag etc.
Things we will give you is a registered fovter list. Door hangers for reminding people.
We will have signs that you will be able to put up. (applause) You will need to find volunteers to get out door hangers and signs up.
Registered voter lists. Not everyone is able to participate. Registered Republicans can make nominations and speak and vote. If you are already ready it will help.
You will receive copy of credentials. Perhaps they are on your list but are not affiliated you will receive registration forms and people can affiliate that night. You can register them that night. They are allowed to participate that night.”
1/28/2012 10:12:55 AM Information Since the Democrats are holding their caucus two days earlier are there any measures to confirm that they will not just turn around 2 days later?
1/28/2012 10:13:21 AM Information “There are two groups that can not affiliate. If they are an officer or candidate in another party. It is okay to ask if they are a candidate or officer for another party.
Another group that can register are 17 year olds that will be eighteen on the night of the election.”
1/28/2012 10:14:12 AM Question Possible to get a list of Democrats?
1/28/2012 10:14:25 AM Information “You will get the entire list. As precinct Host you are responsible for the meeting. After the meeting they will be turning in the information and nothing is turned over to the new precinct chair. You will need to turn in all the information at the end of the meeting.
Anyone can be nominated for every race. State delegate and county delegates.
You do not have to be present and you do not need a second for nominations. There is no closing of the nominations.
You are to include everyone. Give everyone a chance.
When it comes to balloting then it is anything over 50% is a majority. One person receives a majority and it does not need to be more than 50%.
Everyone in Utah county has more than one state delegate. You can make the ballots larger and nominate and you can vote for up to 3 people. If one person only voted for 2 then that is okay.
Resist the tempation to hurry through and don’t just take the highest vote getter.
You cannot change the agenda but you can make a motion to do questions and answer and other things.
You will receive copious information but contact the state party if you want to talk to us. I would be happy to talk with you again.
Look for your packets, read them, and we will have the most fantastic caucus we have ever had.
If you are currently an officer in the precint you wil likely be hosting the meeting.
County will get the information.
When you get the information read it and do it
If you have questions contact the County.”
1/28/2012 10:19:35 AM Information “The packets are being created now.
For combined precincts we will publish the information at the County level.”
1/28/2012 10:21:16 AM Motion Dave Acheson Insert 30 minutes at this point to address the issues so that we can do this.
1/28/2012 10:21:51 AM Vote Clear 2/3.
1/28/2012 10:22:08 AM Business Dave Acheson “Information on the Jeremy Roberts issue. If you have the agenda then you have a copy of the information. We only printed 280 of the agenda.
You have it in front of you what happened. We held a hearing on Dec 6 where a quorum was present. Jeremy Roberts was represented by attorneys and more than 2/3 voted to remove him effectively based on malfeasance et ctera. He chose to appeal that decision, which was his right. We are now in the appeal process.
Last night Jeremy sent a letter of resignation. He started tolling the appeal process and we are still in the middle of the process and we noticed this on the agenda.
Suspend the rules so that we can vote by ballot on this issue, which means we can do a voice vote.
Jeremy has made an appeal. Is there anyone here that wants to represent him?
He chose to not make a request to withdraw his appeal.
If you turn down his appeal then it is confirmed that his appeal is rejected and he will not be able to hold office for the next 2 years.
Should the decision of the executive committee be overturned.”
1/28/2012 10:30:06 AM Question Lisa Shepherd How can they resign from what they didn’t have.
1/28/2012 10:30:26 AM Information David Hansen “I went to the Timpview meeting but I did happen to be there and what he said was that he could not get the information out.
That is what he was saying. He was frustrated. It is the parties fault I can understand the frustration. So I can say that. If you can’t get your job done then that is a problem.”
1/28/2012 10:31:42 AM Motion Dave Acheson “Should the decision be overturned.
Nays have it.”
1/28/2012 10:36:16 AM Report Lisa Shepherd “Our resport from the C&B committee. I have been asked to share some information that I will read for you. We have investigated concerns about B114a and we wanted to provide you with new information.
All are familiear with rule 15 and that I am authorized to share the information with you. On Tue Jan 19 I contacted RNC legal. We called to find out about rule RNC 12. We spoke for 13 minutes. We talked about the ex oficio delegates. We did not change any state delegate voting procedures.
She asked: Did we change dates No
Did we change the state delegates performance. No.
If the state central committee delegates were picked by its own commiteee instead of the manner than at the state convetion. No.
We are therefore in compliance.”
1/28/2012 10:36:21 AM Information Dave Acheson Looking for those who want to discuss the Point of Order from Executive Committee now.
1/28/2012 10:36:23 AM Point of Order Keri Witte No ability to invalidate a meeting. The motion to rescind needs to be put up on the webstie. Since no motion to rescind was given then this discussion is out of order.
1/28/2012 10:37:14 AM Information Dave Acheson Ruled out of Order. The agenda itme is questioning whether it should be invalidated.
1/28/2012 10:37:55 AM Information Dave Acheson If you are in favor of the motion then you are over there and against is over here. I have asked one person to make a 5 minute statement for each side.
1/28/2012 10:38:19 AM Favor Don Garlett “I think this is a fairly simple issue. Let me boil it down to some simple facts. When the special meeting was noticed for December 10. The notice was sent December 2. Until December the 6 when they voted to remove Jeremy he had the right and responsibility to notice meetings on behalf the body not someone else.
Jeremy acording to his testimony says that they did not use this list.
The list that he has right now is different. So I think the concern is that there are people who have been properly elected and had no idea until after the fact.
My argument would be that we invalidate the meeting until we have a greater confidence that all the people are invited.”
1/28/2012 10:40:31 AM Information Arthur Brady How can todays meeting be valid if we still don’t have the right list?
1/28/2012 10:40:50 AM Answer Dave Acheson It could be and we are moving on.
1/28/2012 10:41:00 AM Against Kristin Chevrier “I would just like to remind everybody that this is not about ex oficio. It has to do with notice. So what constitutes notice. This is our UCRP Bylaw 1. Approval requires 7 day notice for bylaw changes. I does not require notice for meeting.
Notice is considered made when sent, last known address, good faith is the goal.
Not accepting based on less than 500 is not valid. We voted to not meet on December 3. That is not a vote against December 10.
No meeting has ever been better noticed except that meeting.
Here is the postcard. Email messages were sent to 536 email addresses. We had follow up phone calls for bounced email or no email. We left detail messages and got new email addresses.
If you didn’t see it then Kirby did an audit of the two lists and can you just tell me what you found? He said that it was all clean and he would have done it the same way. This is whether the meeting was properly noticed not about the change itself.
Thanks”
1/28/2012 10:45:19 AM Favor Diane Christensen “We can argue about the rules and we can find good arguments on both sides. In the end I am concerned about fairness. There is a 7 vote swing on this vote. Recognizing as we did in the November meeting that the lists were not accurate and recognizing that the positioning was under fire, December was not the right time.
The day before the meeting updates were going out the day before. There was a recognition that the list was outdated before the meeting.
There was not fair information about the meeting. If you were one of the people who didn’t get on the list then you missed. Accuracy is a problem.”
1/28/2012 10:47:31 AM Against Dan Forward PR17 “I have been asked to present some facts. Just by the fact of the attendance then before this meeting it was the best attended we have had. We can agree that a good faith effort was made. Some would say a zealous effort.
We did use the latest lists that was available.
The meeting went very weell. Both sides were heard. We have to stand by the vote. We shouldn’t do this just on technicalities.
Some have said that voted not to have meeting in December. If you vote for something that does not mean that the negative is possible.
The change does not impact state rules and national rules.”
1/28/2012 10:49:35 AM Favor “I didn’t know who the ex oficio were that didn’t receive notice. I understand that making lists is difficult. I can speak for myself that I was not notified of the December 10 meeting.
Since August I was not notified. For me it was not sent. I want my vote to be counted. I haven’t received any notice. I supplied an email address. I ask you to reconsider.”
1/28/2012 10:51:41 AM Against “I have been asked to talk about why notice was right. The same people were at the November meeting and the December meeting. We question whether it should be valid based on our attendance. We had no credentials at November.
There was an incmoplete list in November. In the December meeting the list was asked to be updated and that updated list was what was sent out
It is the leg chairs job to do that, to update the lists. In December we received post cards.
The chair ruled that everything was in order in the December meeting. We voted as a body in November to continue.”
1/28/2012 10:53:53 AM Favor Paul Baltes “I don’t doubt that there was an effort to in good faith get notice out. The wrong list was used. If you don’t have the right map you won’t get to the right place. Two wrong lists from August and November list.
The wrong list in November is the wrong list in December. We had a meeting that voted.
Again a wrong map doesn’t get you where you want to go. We broke the rules, not on purpose. Decembers meeting was invalid. We can’t use it to validate and then use it.”
1/28/2012 10:56:24 AM Question Arthur Brady “Is the list being used incorrect or invalid? We want a ruling to know that it is the list?
Isn’t this a valid question that must be given a ruling and then we can counter the chairs ruling?”
1/28/2012 10:58:51 AM Information Dave Acheson We are working on getting an answer to the question of whether the list was valid.
1/28/2012 11:09:13 AM Vote Dave Acheson Extend the meeting by 10 minutes passes.
1/28/2012 11:09:28 AM Information Dave Acheson On the question of whether it is valid I rule that I do not have to rule since that is the crux of the question.
1/28/2012 11:10:00 AM Against Dave Duncan “I feel like a field goal kicker that has been iced. I would just like to point out that the November 17 meeting was not the list that was used. That list contained some precint chairs and no vice chairs. That list was a disaaster and it was not the same list that we used. It was the latest list from August. I notified the chair and his credentialing person Cory and Kirby and they were all in on what list was being used.
In an email from the chair I was told that the secretary was non-functioning.
It is important that we don’t hold this body hostage to a non-functioning officer of the party.
We did a very unifiying thing. It was from the party.”
1/28/2012 11:12:11 AM Information Kirby Glad “We are going to go to the vote. Caucus chairs we have packets for you. We have 6 ballot boxes.
We have tabs on your wrist that should be quicker than marking.
Here is how we decided the new list. There are some people we did not have an address for. If you live in that district you can vote. It is not limited to just what is on your credentails.”
1/28/2012 11:13:30 AM Question If the outcome is affirmative then the rules for the district caucus will be changed. How will we know whether they are right?
1/28/2012 11:14:17 AM Information My row was given seven ballots and I got multiple.
1/28/2012 11:14:34 AM Answer The answer is that you need to just have one piece of paper when you drop in your vote and they take off the tag from your wrist.
1/28/2012 11:15:12 AM Point of Order Minutes that we are suspending with our vote?
1/28/2012 11:15:26 AM Answer We do not have minutes from the December meeting. Please follow the rules as set in the bylaws.
1/28/2012 11:16:26 AM Ballot and Adjourn